Welcome to DavidKorten.org

At some point we are going to have to care about our children and the world we have left them. We can not keep going like this and have anything left for them. Education is the key. Accredited online education or traditional is a must for our success.

All constructive points of view are welcome. Spam and abusive comments will be removed. The site requires registration to comment solely to avoid abuse by automated spammers. Unless you choose to sign up for our periodic Great Turning Newsletter, your information will not be used for any purpose other than your access to this site and in no event will your e-mail address be shared without your express permission.

I hope you will find ideas and content on this website useful in advancing your work and understanding. Content that is not specifically attributed to someone else, is probably mine occupational safety program & fire science degrees and you have my permission to reproduce and share it with proper attribution as you like. I believe that ideas are the common heritage of the species and should be freely shared in the ongoing process of deepening our fire science degree collective knowledge and capacity as a species. My work builds on the work of countless others, as I hope your work may build on mine.

I have just begun reading David C. Korten’s “When Corporations Rule the World,” second updated edition. In the Prologue of this edition Korten asks that people do not contact him directly because he doesn’t have the time to reply to all the correspondence he gets from readers. I feel compelled to express my feelings on the subject of modern-day global capitalism at some length and hope that I will succeed by posting my letter at David Korten’s website.

I think that in David Korten I have at last found a person with a very similar maturation of world-view and political philosophy which I have undergone with the passing of time. We are true generational contemporaries (I was born in 1935). Korten considered himself a conservative and a Republican for many years. I am European by birth, a refugee from Stalin’s slave empire, and a Canadian by post-World War II emigration. Until a decade ago, I considered myself to be a Hayekian “classical liberal.” Both Hayek and I have had a difficulty labeling our ideological proclivities in the American milieu, because in America the label of “liberal” has been misapplied to people who would, in the rest of the world, be called “socialists.” For me, socialism was - and still is - a hostile and dangerous ideology. David Korten declares a similar dislike for it.

David Korten came to recognize the negative side of capitalism through his direct experience with its deleterious actions and effects in the developing world. I started to note capitalism’s world-wide failures, particularly after the collapse of the USSR, when capitalism really took off on a global buccaneering rampage. I began to read a lot about capitalism and its history. I now regret that when I read Friedrich Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom” many years ago, nobody suggested that I should also have read Karl Polanyi’s “The Great Transformation,” which gives the other, seedier side of the birth and development of the modern-day capitalist free market. Both books were published in 1944, but whereas Hayek’s is known quite well, very few people know about Polanyi’s work.

David Korten’s beliefs, stated on Pg. 19 of “When Corporations Rule,” are essentially identical to mine. He writes, “I share the liberal’s compassion for the disenfranchised, commitment to equity, and concern for the environment and believe that there are essential roles for government and limits to the rights of private property. I believe, however, that big government can be as unaccountable and destructive of societal values as can big business. Indeed, I distrust any organization that accumulates and concentrates massive power beyond the bounds of accountability. And I believe that every individual shares a responsibility to and for the whole of life.”

The truly monumental expose of the history of the Anglo-American capitalist elites was written by Carroll Quigley, who was professor of history at the Foreign Service School of Georgetown University. Because he wrote honestly and frankly in “Tragedy & Hope,” (1966), his great macro-history of capitalism in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, which describes the enormous power and influence that the capitalist elites exerted on the politics and economies of Britain and the United States, he was ostracized for a while by the powers-that-be for “telling tales out of school” in his book, so to speak.

Quigley writes in “Tragedy & Hope” (1966), on page 324:

‘[After 1919] the powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences.’

It appears evident to me, from all that I have read and have observed, that this still remains the objective of Anglo-American (now mostly American) financial capitalism today, in 2009. The American robber-barons of their day conspired in great secrecy on Jekyll Island, Georgia, in 1911, to create the mother of all banks in the United States, which they prudently decided not to call a bank, but by the innocuous name of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve was, and still is, the privately-run casino of the descendants and the lieutenants of the robber-barons who set up the system.

I have concluded that it is idle nonsense to dream about “reforming” the current global financial capitalist system while the same people who created the system almost 100 years ago remain in charge. Who would be so naïve as to suggest the means by which they could be removed from power in a peaceful, democratic manner? It just cannot happen. And, thus, the destructive commercialization of the world will continue to the bitter end.

More of my writing can be seen at http://pages.interlog.com/~girbe/home.html

"This site is my weblog or blog for sharing my current thoughts and reflections, as well as information on my schedule, current publications, and the personal history that informs my particular point of view. It is a companion to the Great Turning website, Dietas which provides an introduction to the Great Turning framework, resources for discussion, and stories of how others are using and contributing to these resources to advance a rapidly expanding national and global conversation on the work of creating a world that works for all."

Born With No Allegiance To Empire

You helped opened my heart and my mind, for that David I am forever grateful.

Love
A new generation

I agree with you that economics isn't complicated. Some additional ideas:

www.mises.org
www.fee.org

Yesterday I attended a talk by Bill McKibben. Today I picked up David Korten's 'The Postgraduate World'. There's evolution for you! I look forward to reading more with a positive spin. We're not here for the money, true. Neither are we here simply to monitor CO2 levels. I think I've come to the right place.

Hadashi

The you in me says Hi to the me in you

I need more listening material. I'm a good listener. Reader...not so much. Thanks! I've needed this kind of hope.

My first time here. I found you via YES magazine article by Ellen Brown
("Web of debt" http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?id=3162) ...
who as it happens, has published alot of ideas that i had come to independently.
So, very glad to finally find people of like mind.

Please David (& readers), if you have time,
I'd love to have your feedback about some key ideas on my blog:

http://bright-ideas-thomas.blogspot.com/2009/01/what-is-money-why-we-nee...

Especially, there are aspects which harmonize some ideas from both the traditional american conservative 'right' and liberal 'left' that would help build consensus (example: the 'e-Dollar' as gold-substitute for fiscal restraint, without the ecological damage and social strictures of gold as 'hard money').

Feel free to use, improve, and publish anything there that has merit.
Thank you, Thomas (the "Global Village Idiot") tx@2346.net

Your 1995 work, When Corportations... should have been enough for us to start doing something about the demise of the American dream. For some of us it was, for most, it was... not.

I am glad you are here, as glad as you were there. I fervently hope this time more will read, ponder and listen.

I just found you again after losing you ten years or more ago and immediately sent word of my discovery to who I know will listen. Just think, we have replaced the hopelessness of the last 8 years with the possibility that there will be repairs made and I have found an old voice that has been and can be a major impact in the renewal process.

We Americans are an especial people. The last years have proved it is something we need to work at not take for granted.

Terry Gabriel
Raleigh, NC

If a million people believe a foolish thing,
it is still a foolish thing.
---Anatole France

Beginners Sailing Lessons (and philosophy):
for the idiots fighting at the helm of our crashing Cigarette boat economy.

Being an inveterate cruising sailor, in a sport where even the supposedly aggressive racing sailors sail slower and more carefully than a grade-schooler on his bike, I am amazed at this group of macho, and incompetent power-boat drivers (of the economy) grasping for the throttles and thrashing the wheel back and forth on this flaming Cigarette boat of an economy as it heads toward the rocks.

David Korten in his “Why Wall Street Can’t Be Fixed and How to Replace It: Agenda For a New Economy”, Ralph Nader, William Greider, and many others, like Ron Paul, are all getting to the heart of the problem that all the politicians, economist, and Wall Streeters are missing: that the issue is one of sensitive, and human scale application of natural touch, careful adjustment of controls, and being in tune with nature --- both human nature and nature more broadly, which none of the above mentioned experts in applying power, thrust, and force understands in the least --- regardless of whether they are left or right, DEM or REPUB, or any variety of elite ideology.

The supposed experts are all part of the ruling-elite, and the financial/corporatist/political empire, even if they have not yet been totally co-opted by the system --- and this system is a system of controlling things (including the economy) BY POWER, and not by sensitive feel and careful application of a light adjustments and trimming of control surfaces.
The best analogy I can think of is the difference between how a sailor and a power-boater deal with the wind and the seas in a crisis.

The very act and philosophy of sailing to windward in rough seas requires a sailor to understand the environment and nature of what he is involved with, and to make careful, sensitive, and subtle adjustments to all of the control lines, sail trim, and tack of his sailboat in relation to the much more powerful forces of winds and waves that nature has dealt him in any given strom. In sharp contrast, the power-boater is fighting nature by trying to apply the gross power of his engines, and the few rough controls of forward throttle force, and slamming the wheel left or right as his only means to confront and overcome nature, instead of using the force of nature's winds, currents, and seas to help his progress.

Our entire problem with the political economy, with the human economy, and with our entire environmentally dependent economic system of survival, is that we have a shipload of idiot power-boaters arguing about who’s best to be at the helm of this flaming Cigarette boat caught in high seas and gale force winds, and they are all only capable of the gross (and rather stupid) over-powering controls of 'pedal to the metal' or of wrenching the wheel left and right in a vain attempt to keep the floundering power-boat from crashing on the rocks. They simply have no experience in using the sailor's skill of fine adjustments to sail trim, and tack with respect to the power of the winds and the seas in order to turn the power of nature to their advantage.

Our economy is now in the hands of arguing power-boat dummies, wearing gold chains and pendants, and beating their chests about who's more macho in pouring on the throttle power (ie. the money) to force their vessel against nature and against the winds of the storm to escape the crash --- and like real power-boaters in a crisis, their fuel filters have just clogged, they don't have the slightest idea of how to get out of the fix through good seamanship, and they simply don't have enough power (money) left in their engines to do anything but flounder and await helplessly to be fully thrown onto the rocks.

The economic storm that we are now facing is far greater and more fundamental than we have ever faced, and we need to very carefully, and sensitively adjust the rigging, sails and helm of our sailing ship of state such that we use, rather than abuse and confront, the natural elements of human nature, the nature of the seas and the winds, and the overall nature of our entire environment to skillfully turn these powerful elements to our advantage, and be able to save our ship, by sailing carefully to windward and escaping the rocks to the lee shore.

There are ways to harness the energies of nature, wind and seas to do this and survive as a species, --- BUT the idiot power-boat megalomaniacs who only know how to pour on the gas (money) to save their own bacon are going to destroy our vessel and our selves, because this time. like never before, just putting the pedal to the metal and hold the wheel hard to port or starboard (or as these idiots say left or right) economic ideologies is not going to result in anything more than a titanic crash, that will make the real 'Titanic' look like a Sunday school picnic. Power alone, even infinite power and infinite money-power is not going to save the ship in the hands of lousy seamanship and an arrogant confrontation against nature.

The answer to our existential crisis is, as David Korten says, to change the entire nature of how we work with the force of our human economy, and to make the careful 'sailors' adjustments to an entirely new way of working with the forces of nature --- rather than trying to arrogantly, and with insane hubris, forcefully power against it into seas that now can not be overcome with pitiful power of money alone.

Instead of the corrupt big banks, that were too big (and powerful) to fail, but are now floundering in a sea of red ink, being provided with more money-power to supposedly power against the seas of this economic storm, or instead of the supposedly all-powerful government using the power of its money printing presses in an ultimately futile push to ‘power-against’ the winds of economic reality (at the cost of hyper-inflation for our grandkids crews), all of these hopeless, incompetent, arrogant, and macho would–be power-boat skippers to whom the ‘money-power’ throttle is the only control at their mindless helm, should be summarily dismissed from the cockpit, and a new crew of real sailors, who know how to use careful control lines, sail trim and helm adjustments that work with, rather than against natural economics need to right our ship by adjusting the mainsheet of human capital, by reefing the genoa of debt, checking velocity made good to the way point and adjusting tack.

A far better, more human centered, more humane, effective and efficient natural economy can be easily developed today, by simply taking account of the economic ‘sailing trim’ which uses fine adjustments and rules of seamanship to insure that all the forces of the economy, like ‘externality-cost’ forces (which have been ignored or worse, ‘gamed’ by greedy power-boaters) are fully understood and articulated into the whole course of our economy.

We don’t need to pour more money-power at the economy, but rather insure, through subtle control adjustments, that the real natural power of the economy’s rules and rewards are being honestly incorporated into our course settings, sail plans, and helm corrections. For example this two year old course adjustment for our economy, which may have been uninteresting before the storm, could be more carefully reconsidered at our chart table, now that the winds and seas have turned against the current over-powered and poorly charted course that power-boating fools like Alan Greenspan and his like have blindly set:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_alan_mac_070324__22with_their_ow...

I wish fair winds and gentle seas to all on this exciting but arduous cruise. Our success and safety in the voyage is in our own hands once we fire the incompetent power-boat fools and their power-hungry crews, and re=plot our true course.

Alan MacDonald

David: Loved The Great Turning and look forward to reading your new book, which I learned of recently on Democracy Now! You clearly point out how upside down much, if not most, of human society and economy is today. You certainly have the credentials to back it up. And your recommendations for resolving this complex state of affairs are hopeful and laudable.

But there is a gap that needs to be addressed. It's the same gap that always exists between the way things are when they are "bad" and the "good" way things should be. This gap is in the minds of human beings and is currently occupied by an imaginary person: the egoic fiction of an autonomous individual, separate from all else, called "me." Caught in the trance of this belief since early childhood, when conceptual symbols or language started to dominate reality, "the person" feels compelled to act in its own interest, to control outcomes in one's favor, to look out for #1. This trance turns life inside out. Out of balance with the whole, the ego fragments life into me and everything else, some of which I can get, manipulate and control, or reject, avoid and destroy. All of our troubles are rooted in this.

Seeing this clearly operating in one's mind is the beginning of the end of the trance. Seeing this completely and continuously in one's consciousness is the shift from thought/mind/ego dominance to awareness/heart/being dominance. This shift is quiet and subtle, yet major in the fullest sense. After all, all experience, i.e. what we know as living, is based in consciousness and has no reality without consciousness. Consciousness is common to every living thing. We are one in this. Ego is merely an experienced concept in consciousness. It is available to any and all, when one is ready to first face one's own BS, the story of "me." Without this shift, human ideals will remain hopeful yet unrealized, while self-interest continues to corrupt everything. Reading and hearing the news media these days is proof enough of this. Then look into one's own life to see the same behaviors operating.

So I recommend to all readers of The Great Turning that they check out another book, a companion piece if you will. It is A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle. His message is all about this gap now occupied by a mistaken identity, and the tragic, sometimes comical, havoc it wreaks, and how to address and correct the situation. If deeply and simply understood, this book's message will naturally lead to a great turning away from phantom wealth to real wealth, first and most importantly in one's own life.

Thank you for the opportunity to post this comment - Richard Kurth

Hey David,

I just wanted to let you know that I saw your interview on democracynow.org and I wanted to compliment you on the necessary steps towards getting back to a society in which values family and honesty.

There are many possibilities and opportunities to return back to a modernized society that mimics the agricultural society because of the potential we can use our technology. One thing I would like to expand on is the idea of condensing people. You mentioned that people must get closer together, but the practicality of that is a structural flaw that our society fails to see. I am talking about the idea of mass condensing to the point where entire cities and apartments can be condensed into a few massive buildings. As a direct result of doing this, there is immediately more land available and we should then use that land to reinstate farming principals. One major contributor to global warming is not CO2 or the amount of pollution we make, its the land we take up and cover with cement. The major problem in global warming is the lack and destruction of trees or vegetation for that matter. We have expanded our cities, towns and villages by simply cementing over the earth and destroying any signs of green life. The idea of condensing people on a massive scale would prove to work for both the worlds of more communication and an increase in farming that would decrease the speed of global warming.

I am interested to hear what you think of my plan, I also have many other practical ideas that wouldn't take too much remodeling such as this plan. Let me know!

Mike

David,

Just finished reading your article published in Tikkun magazine. Excellent, as always. I'm particularly glad to see that you have begun writing about the need for monetary reform. I have only recently become aware of this issue through Ellen Brown's writings.

I thought you might be interested in this blog entry from the Preservation Institute's Blog, which suggests that Obama is aware of economic sustainability issues: http://preservenet.blogspot.com/2008/08/obama-calls-for-paradigm-shift-i... This gives me some hope that perhaps radical reform is coming.

Keep up the great work!

Joe

Dear David,
Tonight I will read the final pages of The Great Turning - savoring them slowly. I am so grateful that you invested your time and intelligence to bring this book into existence (with Fran's loving support, I am sure). The clarity of your ideas legitimizes a foundation upon which many of us can stand to do our life's work of service facilitating the Great Turning.

While reading I noticed a repeated omission that I consider to be quite serious, and I want to offer one possible solution we can think about together, opening the door to further distinctions, if you like.

The omission is: How can I, as a person committed to The Great Turning, learn the specific relationship and communication soft skills and thoughtware needed for Earth Community when they have been systematically exterminated for 5000 years by Patriarchal Empire (e.g. in witch hunts, book burnings, and inquisitions, for example)? Where do I find them now? How do I get authentic support during the often painful process of recognizing and unlearning old habits while lowering my numbness bar, learning to feel, and bringing new listening and communication skills into my life?

In The Great Turning you fiercely and repeatedly explained to us the necessity of learning whole new ways of relationship:
Learning to relate to other humans is thus foundational both to ensuring our survival and to actualizing the possibilities of our humanity. Pg. 42
Creating a mature society, however, requires leadership by people of a mature consciousness. Pg. 48
Taking the step to maturity requires that we accept individual and collective responsibility of the shadow side of our human nature and set about to create a mutual support system, rather like a global Alcoholics Anonymous meeting that provides the emotional support required to move beyond our psychological dependence on domination and violence. Pg. 55
Relationships, not money, are the true measure of well-being. What matters most is our connection to and participation in the life of community. Pg. 300
The deeper and more mutually affirming our relationships, the richer and more distinctively human we become. Pg. 301
Responsible citizenship, cooperation, and nonviolent conflict resolution come naturally to emotionally and morally mature adults. Pg. 306
The goal, however, is not to swing to the extreme of domination by females, but rather to achieve a synthesis that brings the feminine and masculine tendencies into a healthy dynamic balance. Pg. 324
Again, relationships are the key [to Earth Community]. Pg. 307

The Great Turning happens through many individuals successfully implementing the thoughtware and soft skills of mature adult and archetypal relationship. This learning cannot be legislated! That is why I propose that you expand your support to make suggestions as to where and how such things can be learned.

This is the reason I sent you a copy of my book Radiant Joy Brilliant Love www.radiant-joy.com. It is a handbook based on over 30 years of research and experimenting with creating the adult relationships of Earth Community.

I propose that you share such resources with readers of The Great Turning so that when they are ready for taking their next educational step they have a further place to continue.

I also ask for your support of certain high-integrity responsibility seminars such as www.ExpandTheBox.com that are “bringing the perspective of the higher orders of human consciousness to bear as they create new cultural spaces that give people the freedom to experiment with cooperative relationships.” Pg 302

With support like these available, continuing the Great Turning adventure can be really fun!

All the best to you,
Clinton Callahan
www.callahan-academy.com
www.just-stop.org
www.radiant-joy.com

I am glad to find another enlightened and interlectural person with real alternatives. To further refine some of your proposed programs may I suggest that the transfer tax be universal to include all money transactions, legal or illigal. Also to encourage sound use of non-renewable resources, energy coupons could be used whereby the government decides how much non-renewable energy is needed for the year and each citizen is given their share and each transaction requiring that energy must be paid in dollars and coupons - very similar to WW11. This system would alleviate food stamps since the poor would get the same number of coupons and could sell their excess to people who require a lot of energy. All imports would be assessed the energy coupons. Another idea is to designate railways to be one way toll whereby any rolling stock can pay the toll and go non-stop between states. Thanks, Rod Rylander

You say "I believe that ideas are the common heritage of the species and should be freely shared in the ongoing process of deepening our collective knowledge and capacity as a species."

Then where are my comments from 11/8/08 saying that to save the earth all Nations need to build only Tower cities connected to Trains?

Hi! Do you think 9/11 was an inside job?

Dear David:

I find your writing very interesting. I am most interested in your own inner and outer process through the 'establishment'. I am curious when you realized that your values and beliefs were incongruent with the institutions you represented? From that point I am curious how you managed to navigate yourself in these institutions, how long you continued serving them and how (and if) you stay in partnership with them today.
I ask as someone who is recovering from the inherent mass propaganda and cultural brain wash I was born into, going from confusion, to enlightenment and then back to brain washed. Currently I am not enlightened nor confused but partnering with anyone who is interested in learning the tools of Self As Instrument. It seems my goals and destiny are to be in the stream of our modern world, trying to wake up and help others wake up. I believe that your personal journey would be valueable for both learning and role modeling. Thank you in advance for sharing your story.
Sincerely,
Dr. Anna Gomez

Arvind Patil
I see that David is going to be in Henderson, NC on April 17 - 19, 2009. I want to explore the possibility of his coming to Charlotte, NC after that for a speaking engagement on behlf of Piedmont Liberal Forum. We are a non-profit organization that seeks to bring well known speakers on socio-economic, spiritual , cultural and scientific topics to Charlotte area. So far we have organized talks by Bill Schultz of Amnesty International, Eugenie Scott, Sister Prejean  and Father Coyne, to name the few.
What are the chances of having David come here after his engagement in Henderson NC? We are only 3-4 hours drive from there. How much will it cost us? Who is the contact person that we can get in touch with to continue further discussions on this topic?.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Arvind Patil, Ph.D.
VP-Technology
Ricura Corporation
11515 Vanstory Dr., Suite 135
Huntersville, NC 28078
Ph-704-875-0366 X 102
arvind.patil@ricura.com

Hello David Korten,
      My name is andrew lord.  I wrote a song for the great turning, as well as a recorded a video message to you, explaining my story about the biomimetics of the great turning, a story I call the Science of Proactive Peace Production.  I hope you can find the time to watch.  You can find both the song and your message on youtube.  The message is called dear david korten, and the song is called the great turning. 
Have a beautiful day!
a-

Dear David
I work for the Resource Center for Nonviolence in Santa Cruz California,  a local peace and justice center. We frequetly bring in speakers. Could you give me an estimate of your speaking fee. I notice you will be in the Bay Area from time to time and maybe 2009 would be a good time for you to visit. I look forward to your reply.
Sincerely,
Barbara Hayes
barbara@greybird.com
Resource Center for Nonviolence
515 Broadway, Santa Cruz, CA 95060
831-423-1626

David K. - It was a true pleasure to have met you at the BALLE conference in Boston last month. I appreciate that we had a chance to talk for a bit and I have continued to wrestle with the ideas we discussed. From our discussion, I followed your suggestion that I read "The Great Turning." I am about half-way through and I have a question for you regarding the relationship between equity and sustainability.

In TGT, you write near the end of Chapter 3, ". . . equity becomes an essential condition of a healthy, sustainable society in a full world . . ." I agree intuitively (and on principle) to that statement. But I am hoping you can refer me to some materials that flesh out the logic that leads one to our shared conclusion. I am also interested in the extent to which that statement applies to one or both of the following: that equity is a condition needed to make the Great Turning itself, and/or if equity is a condition that, as an outcome, will inform us that Great Turning efforts are succeeding.

And finally, if we take equity to mean "economic equity," I am also curious to know your opinion on the extent to which the purpose of seeking equity is to ensure, as you write on the same page, that "all persons have an adequate and meaningful means of making a living for themselves and their families," and/or that through the achievement of equity (however measured/defined), there will simply be less of a chance for too much wealth to be under the control of too few.

Thanks in advance for your time and any documents you may send me in responding to my questions.

All the best to you,
-- Jonathan Kevles